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 [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?

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Nombre de messages : 79
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Date d'inscription : 29/06/2010

MessageSujet: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   30/6/2010, 23:51

Source :

reportage complet:] : LIEN HS


Langue : anglais

Demande faite par : Marston

Statut : parties 1 à 7 sous-titrées.

Transcripteurs : Marston, Aurélien1818

Traducteurs : Marston

Relecteurs : à l'arrache

Incrustation : Nex

Dernière édition par faze le 6/4/2011, 21:37, édité 7 fois (Raison : Mise à jour)
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 13:02

c'est quoi le delire???

reportage france 2 je voie pas le truk des traduction , pkoi englais ...



houlalala j'ai du mal pardon je n'avai pas compris que le but été de le passe ren englais mes excuses

Dernière édition par MaGIkKriS le 4/7/2010, 13:19, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 13:14

C'est pour qu'elle puisse être vue par d'autres que des francophones, c'est important.

Pour ma part, je peux éventuellement faire l'incrustation des sous-titres.
Je note
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 16:46

Citation :
c'est quoi le delire???

reportage france 2 je voie pas le truk des traduction , pkoi englais ...


C'est tout simple: vu que c'est le silence total, l'omerta sur ce genre d'affaires en France, et bien je crois que ça coute rien d'essayer de diffuser ça à l'étranger. On sait jamais, ça peut arriver dans les bonnes mains. Et combien d'anglophones par rapport aux francophones? Un sacré paquet, et le sujet touche tout le monde. Crying or Very sad
Mais bon c'est vrai que la démarche est un peu atypique alien

Ouf ça y est, j'ai fini de traduire les 30 premieres minutes. Une petite relecture s'impose study

Merci Nex Wink pour l'aide à l'incrust!
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 16:50

Les 30 premières minutes, relecture à venir:

Good evening.

what is the word of a child in front of the French judicial system?
what is his chance to be heard when confronted with sexual violence?
Are all these conditions met so they can discharge this burden?

What Pierre, Marie, Sylvie tell of their childhood seems like a nightmare.
What they lived then seems this time like a denial of suffering.
Why does the justice has not heard them, at least not as they would like? How did the police headed the investigation?

For a year and half our team has Exclamation patiently Exclamation reconstructed the path and tragedy of these children, and we tried to understand why and how the silence was gradually resumed its rights.

This investigation was made by Pascal Justice, Stephane Taponier, Cecile Toulec.
Then we'll find ourselves in a debate.

"I agree that you speak to the Television of my testimony and that of my brother but with our faces hidden so I'm not embarrassed over my friends...
I think that child rape should be recognized, I want people to know that it exists ..."

Marie, so we have named it, wrote this letter on her own will.
Marie and her brother, whom we'll call Pierre, say their father and other adults have raped and terrorized them during weird ceremonies .

Their story, Pierre and Marie have already told 20 times to police and judges. So it's a story repeated many times, built and richly detailed, that children delivered us. To obtain the testimony of Pierre and his little sister we have met them 15 times in a year. Of the two children it's the eldest Marie who is especially telling and drawing.

Here she tells of her father and the places where he would have brought them.

It was a place in Paris, where he was the boss, except that he said he was a great magician, and he was called "BOUCNOUBOU".
And in this place they had large white robes, with golden edges, then there were prayers, they raped the children, they scared them, and then there were several other people who raped us too and we fell asleep with sorts of gruels.

Then they bound us on tables and then they hit us and they put needles at eye level to make us believe that they would pierce our eyes.

And did he really make you pain? Did he hurt you?

Yeah, he wanted to hit us ... sobs
It Was horrible ... they raped me ...

Did they rape you? What means "raped" for you?

They have touched my wily, played with it, I was 10 I did not understand yet what they were doing ...

It all began in August 1994, Pierre and Marie's parents get separated. Pierre is 5 years and Marie 8 years, since that moment the children live with their mother, and go a weekend on 2 with their father. According to them, it is at this time that begin the abuses, but they do not yet speak and their mother said she never suspected.

Mother of Pierre and Marie:
When the children return, Pierre was still young at the time he was 6 years old ... he beheaves like a baby, he really speaks like a baby, and then he crawls on the ground, he knows no longer stand, he is completely limp ...
And Marie, the only thing she does when she gets home is to wash herself, she takes a bath, and then after she is very angry with us, she retreats, she isolates herself in her bedroom, she also cries very much, and moreover she has a lot of nightmares ...
And my son was complaining, I didn't really do, I did not understand anything at that time ...

When I called their father to ask them why they were in this state, he told me it was due to our separation, and the fact that we are divorcing, and that I shouldn't care, that it was completely common that children are disturbed in such a situation. It's a thing that I did not understand because the atmosphere was different at home, but ok I could admit.

When you see the marks on the body of your children, I guess the first thing is: you ask them what happened to them, the children ...

When I asked them they told me they had been falling, or something of that order, they never talked to me they were hurt ...

On January 8, 1996 the mother decided to show the wounds on the bodies of the two children by a doctor.She no longer believes into falls, but rather to blows. The father, she said, was already violent with the children before their divorce .

It took him suddenly without no one could foresee, it was a reaction I would say very basic, very sharp, suddenly he came out of its hinges, and then he began to scream. He hit children on the head, or he also humiliated them, especially Marie.

What he did to humiliate her?

He made her kneel before him, he was very rude to her, and then he hit her.

During 3 months Marie refuses to return to her father, without saying why, while Pierre continues to go there alone.
March 1996, Marie Began to speak. She said that Pierrer is in danger, that her father did with his little brother "as a woman".
Alerted by the mother, the police will look for Pierre's father's home and conduct medical examinations but only three months after the fact!
Examinations that will reveal nothing.

But children show psychological and physical problems. So their mother brings them to a GP.

Dr. BODOT remembers the suffering of Mary.

I see her brought by her mother, she has headaches and abdominal pains. Clinical examination was entirely normal, that is to say that there are no visual disturbances that may cause headaches, there are no digestive problems, the abdomen is soft, there is absolutely no point of appeal, there was no organ damage.

She was somatizing?

She was somatizing. What to do?

And physically, it seems that there may have been penetrations, several months after this may not be detectable.

Not necessarily detectable, the anal region is a region still soft, so it can not be verified.

The children are now refusing both to go to their father who continues to claim them. Their mother makes regularly confirm their refusal by the police.

Now the children confide but very gradually, they speak first blows, then touching, finally rapes.

In fact, as I learned through the words of my children very gradually, it was a shock each time, and at every step I hoped too that things couldn't have gone so far, that I understood wrong what they said. Despite this they had somehow prepared the ground since several months, because I think they were very very scared at first they wouldn't be believed, and also they were afraid because they were forbidden to speak, they had been threatened with death ...

If today this fear has diminished, the pain is still present. Especially when they talk about the most serious acts they have witnessed.

They killed them ...

J: They were killing children?

M: Yes ...

J: How do you know that?

M: Because I've seen it....
They were children who were a little Arabic, things like that, and then they cut off their heads ...


J: When you saw they cut off the head of a child, it was the truth, it was happening in front of you, or could it be a movie?

M: No, it was for real, because the children were always screaming...
And then they made us kneel down and they told us they would cut off our heads too, we were also put on here like that, it was like that and then we were very scared and we believed we were dead ...

J: Why these people were doing this?

M: I do not know ... because they are mean, they're insane!

I do not know why they did this they are wicked!

We did nothing we were children!

July 2, 1996, from the first revelations of Marie, the mother sends the two children to a pediatric psychiatrist who has treated similar cases.
Over 3 years this is with drawings that Dr. Sabourin has collected their stories.
Tens of drawings, dozens of hours of listening, who forged his conviction.
He believes the children.

Dr: Of course I feel they have experienced some incredible things very difficult for them to synthesize and put in form.
They have both two a personal capability to draw them , this is not always the case.

Marie designed the gigantic statue planted, she said, amid the ceremonial hall.
Then the pendulum and the wheel, which were used for sessions of hypnosis on children.
And always, the costumes, great cloaks of white or red, and crucifixes.
We put Dr. Sabourin the latest drawing that Marie did.

Dr.: In these recent drawings I find themes, 1, 2, 3, 4 already exsisting themes.

J: When did you see them?

Dr.: In '96, at the very beginning.
It was a ceremony with people who seemed disguised, with crosses on their shoulders, we found it here, there are 3 here.
And then the crucifix, which is very special.
You see?
She said it was a crucifix surrounded by grass.
So how did she find such a thing?
I do not know: is it her imagination, a delirious child?
I do not think so.
That is to say that faced with such elements extremely precise and surprising, I rather tend to say this is an element of memories which reappears.
Always in these cases when it's about a child and of course an adolescent or an adult, those memories of early trauma are broken in thousand pieces.
And it was with great difficulty, a lot of emotion, a lot of inner tension and fear, they are children who are afraid, who are under terror, it was with great difficulty that they manage to deliver a small passage, a small piece of memory.
This leaves everyone stunned.
We finally said us, but how is it that they have not mentioned earlier?
How is it they can not describe as us adults we describe a scenario?
And indeed, there is a scenario, and so it is the big work for police and magistrates, who have a hard time with these children, because they seek the truth.
And the judicial truth they want to write it like that, at such time it happened like this, like this and like that, and it does not work with children.

October 96, the case is taken over by the Child Protection Squad in Paris.
The mother filed a complaint, and it is here Quai de Gèvres that starts the police investigation quickly placed under the supervision of a judge.
The police first heard the children whose testimony, yet fragmented, evolves from audition to audition.
The father is on phone tapping.
And very soon the police identify his friends, that the children identify as their agressors, and from whom they know only faces, names or nicknames.
The investigation progresses, but the means seem to be lacking the Child Protection Squad, which carries out no spinning suspects.
The investigating magistrate handling the case refused a filmed interview, but declared to us:

"The Child Protection Squad who by the way made a big investigation has neither the time nor the means to spinners.
Spinning is reserved for big traders. "

Yet it is a real organization involving many adults that describe children.
And if they are unable to disclose the location of the ceremonies, however Marie designed us a very specific plan of the building and its basement.

M: We came here by car, so we turned to a roundabout, there was a groom who opened us the door, then we'd come in this place that seemed to be a rather chic hotel , they went taking the keys, and then we continued along a hallway to an elevator.
Then we descended into a labyrinth where it was cold and dark, and it seemed to be a basement.
Here there was a changing room where they would be changing and dressing with the white and red clothes.
Then we went here.
There was a room where they raped children.
Here it was the part where there were mostly girls who raped boys, there was my little brother, and then there was the men who raped the girls.
It was a big room like a big cave, as it's cathedral or (crèche) manger, and there were many many people here.
There was also a very very large statue of an African or black god.
When he growled people put money in big baskets that were circulating.
Around the statue there were ashes, with children's heads on spikes.

(into the fire)

Child heads after pics.
The heads of these children, Marie told us they were decapitated before her eyes, and we found it in several of her drawings.
To access these basements, Marie described a building surface, a sort of grand hotel with red carpet, facing a roundabout in Paris or its region.
A building adorned with a chic rounded porch.
On each side door entry, large windows.
left the building a green place hidden by a grid.
The Police did not locate this building, so they go searching for another place.
Probably a sex shop where the father would have took the children.

M: When he violated us at his home there was also someone who came home, who undressed and who put his dick in our back and filmed us.
Or so he told us to do things with my brother, and so on ...

J: The other man?

Mrs: Yes.

J: And while he was filming it?

M: Yes, he was filming and then after they took the tapes to a place that I think was in Paris, and there were plenty of books on sexual matters and all that ...
And he deposited the tapes there.

The police did not find this second place, and no other place at all.
And the search at the home of the father reveals nothing.

March 4, 97.

After four months of investigation the Minors Brigade decides the custody of the father.
In total, 8 people have been questioned in this case.
At the father's side, working as an osteopath , two physiotherapists, one man and one woman, an airline pilot, a communications consultant, a journalist, a teacher and a designer specializing in motion picture SFX.
All categorically deny having participate to ceremonies and rapes.
After the interrogation, the police decide a confrontation between father and daughter.
Mary's mother warns her lawyer, Mr. Lardon Galeote runs but she is not allowed to attend the child.

LG: There was a tension absolutely... that everyone can understand, a fatigue, a terrible weariness, and then a state of anxiety it is real for this child, it must be understood.
When we arrived she was taken by an inspector to be confronted, and the only thing we could told her is that she must be courageous and that she says what she had to say.

(You lie! You lie!)
(Then answer!)
(Sob... cries ..)

M: In the morning they came to question me many times, and arrived at night, they took me straight into a confrontation.
There was nobody to help me.
They were all telling me that I was a liar, behind me, they all told me that I lied that it was not true and so on ...
Then they forced me to kneel before him like that ...
(Ah ah ah, I'll kill her!)

D: Why did they made you kneeling?

(Hi hi hi! Look how it's funny she is crying)

M: Because they wanted to watch ...
They wanted to see if, how he put his wily in my mouth, they wanted to see if it was the size or I do not know what.

J: And your father what he said?

M: He laughed, he laughed ...

(Ah ah ah, I'll kill her!)

J: The story of Marie is confirmed by the record of the statement which states:

"At this time of the audition, we make Mary put on her knees and measure the child to the height of his face."
Statement of March 6, 1997

M: What do you want me to say?
It's unbearable to imagine a child living such a situation.
It is amazing! What can I say to you...
It is certain from the moment we know the fragility of the child, make her live such an agression, because the confrontation and questionning, the fact of saying what she has already lived is already an aggression and a suffering in itself.
The confrontation with the father is a new suffering.
But moreover it's true that a kind of recovery tragedy for the child, it is unthinkable ...
I find it unbearable.

At the head of The Child Protection Squad, Nicole Tricart.
The divisional commissioner does not wish to comment on the case of Pierre and Marie.
So we asked her to show us the new hall, where today are interviewed child victims of sexual abuse.
The room is equipped with a camera to avoid repeated auditions, and its scenery is appeasing.

(Nicole Tricart - Chief of The Child Protection Squad of Paris)

NT: Because precisely the things that are told here are always very serious and traumatic for children.

The Divisional Commissioner then leads us to the old audition rooms.
We try again to ask her about the case of Pierre and Marie.
At the time of the interview the judicial process is not yet complete.
Thus Nicole Tricart is required to reserve duty.
Even if the police investigation is over.

J: Was it a difficult investigation?

NT: Uh, no, I do not want to answer because the investigation is not complete, so I do not know ...

J: The investigation is ongoing then?

NT: Uh, I do not know.

J: The case was dismissed.

NT: I do not want to speak about it because frankly it is a particularly difficult investigation.
I do not agree with what will surely be said.

J: Okay.

NT: I know that the Minors' Brigade has been implicated, so it's out of question that I speak on it.

J: But what happened? Who has been called into question the Minors' Brigade?

NT: The family, the mother in particular.
She found that maybe we didn't make the right things.

J: But is there a reason to say that you have not done the right things?
I have heard that you had made a very big investigation about it.

NT: It was a very big investigation.

If we find anything this is that there might be nothing to find.

J: You think that these children could storyteller?

NT: I do not want to speak about it!

J: I just ask your opinion because it bother me to have interviewed children who ...

NT: I wish that we change the subject because I do not really want to talk about this case.

Minors' Brigade found nothing that corroborates the testimony of children.
But did the investigation could have been distorted?
On 1 January 97.
The father of Pierre and Marie is on phone tapping, and police retranscribe a conversation in which he confided to a friend:

"I have information of what actually happens in the court from time to time."
(Minutes of 1 January 1997)

The father does not speak here of the judge, but of the children court judge, also seized in this case.
The inspector who decrypted the tape notes the following:
"We note that it appears that Mr X (father) has heard from indiscretions in the judge for children's chambers that his daughter spoke of the sect."
Later investigators will suspect Pierre and Marie's father's aunt, clerk in another court, for organizing these leaks.

(M. Catherine Lardon Galeote - lawyer of the children's mother)

MLG: it was part of my surprises in the knowledge of this case that it appears from reading the record of police, of the police investigation, and it is one of inspectors involved in the investigation that reported and makes the point, the father was kept informed of research that were made by the police, wiretaps, surveillance and noted in her minutes.
And that is quite surprising.

J: And does it accounted for the result? Would for example the investigating judge account?

MLG: Well it seems that all that has passed a little bit forgotten, and well, in the state, it can actually be a sign of failure somewhere on the investigation because the person primarily concerned had been informed and that the police investigation stopped.
We could not do anything.

J: Nevertheless, on 6 March 1997, the day after the confrontation with his daughter, the father was indicted by the judge settled on the other side of the Seine for:

"Rapes of minors under 15 years.
Sexual assaults on minors.
Corruption of minors.
Fixation, pornographic image recording of minors. "

Despite the seriousness of the suspicions about the father, the court decides to allow him to see his children one month after his indictment.
Pierre and Marie refused.

April 98.
A year has passed.
The judge hears the children for a second time, and decides this day to confront them again with their father, who they have not seen for a year.
During the confrontation Mary did not feel the confidence of the judge.

M: She did not believe me, the judge.

J: How do you know?

M: Because it showed.
She treated me not gently, and he (the father), she asked his opinion to say for example words he had said.
And then me when I said important things, they sometimes wrote them not.

J: But you had a lawyer with you?

M: Yes but she did nothing, she sat beside me and she looked at me like that, then she was listening (the father).
He had two lawyers who defended him, and me I had only one, she did nothing at all.

J: For the first time Marie has a lawyer by her side.
But it is not M. Lardon Galeote, the lawyer's mother.
This is another lawyer selected and appointed by the court.

M: I met her once and then she told me:

"But you know Marie if you shut we won't be there to annoy you, it'll be nice because we'll leave you alone, we won't be there to annoy you anymore, and then if you talk we'll still have to be with you and still make you talk.
She said that and then she told me to shut.

J: M.Guertzon Blimbaum is the lawyer appointed to defend the children.
She totally contradicts the version of Marie.

MGB: So it's quite extraordinary that they say that today, whereas if they are the 2 children that I think we've always had very good relationships,
they always open with me very frankly, and I do not think there is anything in the case or in my statements,nor in the relationships I had with them, which could make them think that I did not believe them.

J: You've believed in these two kids there?

MGB: These two children, I thought that initially there was surely something real.

J: Why initially?

MGB: I told you I do not want to talk about this issue.

J: Why?

MGB: Because it's an ethical problem.
I do not want to talk about this issue.

J: Nobody wants to talk about this issue.

MGB : Why? Should nobody talk about this issue?

J: I do not know I ask you, do you?

MGB: I do not know.
This case is no different from other files.
It is an ethical problem.
Records where children are involved has not to be spread on the public square, then of course the party claiming damagesitself can do it, that is their choice, they express what they have to express, what they want to express with their own version.
But I think the normal way the players should not speak on this issue, which had a legal issue, which is what it is.

So it's M.Lardon-Galéote, lawyer of the mother, who tries to rekindle the investigation.

Dernière édition par Marston le 6/7/2010, 15:50, édité 1 fois (Raison : :!: correction :!:)
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 17:37

Merci, bon j'me lance ! pour Daily et Utube... Que la Force soit avec nous ! I love you
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 21:44

Bon courage!

Citation :
Que la Force soit avec nous !

Oh que oui!!
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   1/7/2010, 22:44

L'intégrale sur google-vidéo n'a plus l'air en ligne... Elle est sur Dailymotion:

La qualité est mauvaise, c'est dommage...
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   3/7/2010, 20:57

Voici les deux premières parties postées sur Utube:

Je vais les mettre aussi sur Dailymotion.

Vous pouvez les copier sur votre disque dur grâce à "DownloadHelper"

à partager sans modération, il faut que ça passe la frontière !
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   4/7/2010, 13:50

Félicitations à tous, vivement la suite !
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   4/7/2010, 16:05

Merci à tous!

Voici la 3eme partie (en gros 10 min):

The story of the children precised itself.

They asked the judge for further investigation.

- We wanted other people may be sought or heard,

and it is true that we faced the judge's refusal.

May 98, the judge denies M. Lardon-Galeote's request in these terms:

"Considering that one can not deny neither the existence of sects in France nor their growing influence,

however it appears inconceivable that within these groups there may be as stated Marie "children's heads at the end of peaks that are on fire,

a head and hands of children cut and jars on a table containing the hands of children "

"Whereas on the other hand, that Peter had said during the confrontation that women also put their wilys in his mouth and his ass,

this is clearly physically impossible"

"For these reasons, we reject the further investigations requested by M. Lardon-Galeote"

"This was made in Paris May 28, 1998, the first magistrate X.

- "Unbelievable, children are very frankly discredited."

The judge handling the case did not wish to receive us,

we went to see his colleague, Christiane Berkany, first judge,
also in the minors division of Paris.

Christiane Berkany also participated in the drafting of the new law on children victims of sexual abuse.

She defines the role of judge like this:

- The judge should not have an a-priori negative or positive.

The essence of the judge's task is to bring in his case all the elements that attest to the guilt or the elements that tend to establish the "not guilty".

What the judge has to do is bring all these items one by one in his file.

And it's the Court or the Court of Assizes which will decide whether the infringement is proven or if it is not.

However, the judge must not say himself this is improbable or contrary to this is totally the truth.

The judge requested a psychiatric examination of Pierre and Marie.

The expert receives them once and concluded his report by the overall credibility about children's talks.

But he adds: "their testimony should be received with caution".

In an attempt to restore the credibility of her children,

the mother then decided to take them to professor Philippe Mazet.

Author of many books on children abuse and incest,

he directs the child psychiatry department of the Salpetriere's Hospital in Paris.

He followed Pierre and Marie for a year,

for him children do not make up stories.

- It is only in a small number of cases,

depending on the work that goes from 3% to 6%, it is not much.

But there may be false allegations,

we know that especially in situations of great parental conflicts and divorce.

But in my experience I must say that what I observed in these two children is something that does not raise false allegations, not at all.

I felt the contrary, a very very difficult to talk about things, facts, events.

I did not have at all the feeling of being confronted with a child telling a story.

Neither Professor Mazet, nor the two other doctors caring for children have been heard by the Court.

The sectarian framework and the facts described by the children are they credible or unbelievable as written by the judge?

We asked the question to Paul Aries, a sociologist, specialist in sects and children abuse that has conducted studies for the Department of Health.

We presented all the declarations of Pierre and Marie.

- "They made prayers, they said they were pure women.

They said that one day there was a planet,

all the people of this planet were scattered on the Earth and now they had to bring them together.

There was a kind of god, a messenger of the gods they called at,

who came to tell them they had to leave soon on their planet or something like that."

- I would say that what we are told here is completely unimaginable.

That is to say that a child can not imagine this, can not invent it.

First item is those elements of "doctrine", that is to say,

if we adopt the perspective of followers of this group,

we are part of an elite that comes from another planet who is currently on Earth,

and will soon be called to leave.

Overall it's part of the common ground of all sorts of networks today.

Also the need of killing someone to save or to save humanity.

also all kinds of rituals where we are told at one point "these men are pur women".

this is something that can be found relatively frequently in the litterature.

The woman is the one that fertilizes,

what to do here is to get to fertilize the so-called humunculus,

that is to say super-human being.

It seems to me that we are finally here at the crossroads between two types of networks.

That is to say one side actually networks who believes in flying saucers,

and then on the other hand, networks of sexual magic,

and we know that these connections are established more .

- Marie:

"There were people who had some kind of ...

not diving masks but species of glasses, with something on his mouth
dressed in overalls ...

And there was a table on its top the severed hands of children, and a child's head and then sorts of guts ...

And they put these things in jars. "

- "The severed hands in jars, it is something that exists.

- And what do these severed hands in jars mean?

- Once again, there are several possible interpretations,

ie we can simply have there practices such as cannibalism,

the objective being to reach to increase its own power,

also learn to suffer and cause suffering to become more powerful.

- On this table, did it seem to be true children's hands?

- Yes, there was blood and stuff ...

- And what did you felt ?

- I was very scared ...

- What did you think?

- I thought we were the next they would kill ...

- The only difficulty then is to finally know when these children tell us about these monstrosities,

do they tell the facts they have really lived?

or are they saying the hallucinations that they lived?

They use undoubtedly a number of drugs to cause artificial amnesia or on the contrary to produce hallucinations.

So the whole speech of children seems credible,

but it is a discourse that must be deconstructed,

that is to say that one part of what children tell us refer to hallucinations that may be voluntary,

with the aim to terrify them to prevent effectively them from talking".

For defence, that is to say to Mr.Smadja Epstein, counsel for the father of Pierre and Marie, it is not about hallucinations but just the imagination of children.

- "Absolutely no one believed the story of these children and in fact we could not believe it.

Why can't we believe in it?

first because they said initially the father was just violent, and not at all that he had committed sexual abuse.

Then sexual violence gradually worsened to the point that one day,

and that's how it all began, they said their father was part of a sect and that sect,

there were men and women around a hotel where there were statues,

severed heads and hands from children,

where there were children running naked in a room ...

all that is comic strip!

And at such a point that nobody believed!

we found in comic strips exactly the same style as the words of children:

Tintin, "the black label", "cigars of the pharaoh",

where there are quite violent scenes,

they seemed at the base very influenced, even unconsciously, by the mother,

and then they have drawn in comic books, in television and in Tintin.

In "The Blue Lotus", in "black label", they found scenes of cult,

for it is mainly the sect, look especially they spoke in particular of draped people, with phrases we re-found ...

- Is it the father who found the readings that may have had his children?

- He knew the albums, you know they were quite common readings to children.

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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   7/7/2010, 00:01

La troisième partie:

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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   29/7/2010, 11:38

Ok, je viens de terminer la traduction du débat complet (sauf la promo à la fin.)

Je mets ça en forme, mais j'attends aussi le reste de la transcription du reportage avant de poster, sinon, ça va être un beau bordel Wink

Sinon j'avais pensé à mettre un petit mot à la fin du reportage, histoire de signer.
A l'arrache comme ça:

Citation :
Translation made by the NOSTRAD team,
thanx for your attention.

A word to mention that Pascal Taponier who participated in making the original documentary,
is hostage to terrorists in afghanistan for more than 6 months at the time we end the translation.
God bless him!

Please share this video, speak about it...
The law of silence has no more reason to exist,
remember now you have the choice and the power within you,
the tools are here.
It's more easy than you can imagine...

"The Words are our Sword."

"The truth will set us free".


C'est pas définitif, donc si vous avez des idées, des trucs à modifier, faites péter ! Wink
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   29/7/2010, 14:23

Je suis d'accord pour une "signature", faudrait faire un sondage ou gérer ça ici.

Tu as possibilité d'incruster un logo facilement ?
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   29/7/2010, 16:06

Gasp! effectivement ça a plus sa place dans cette rubrique.
J'y go (d'agneau) de ce pas.

Pour l'incrust, euh, je sais pas comment on fait Embarassed

Mais j'en connais un ici Wink qui saurait sûrement...
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   6/8/2010, 00:15

Suite et fin de l'investigation:


The father of the children refused a filmed interview.

But he has agreed to talk to us on the phone after a few recommendations of his lawyer.

- And especially not any psychology!
I put the speaker on.

- You've been accused by your children of incestuous facts in a sectarian context, what do you say?

- Well nothing, I already told what I had to say at the court.

- Then the story of your daughter seems quite unbelievable.
She talks about sectarian context, rituals ...

- I think we all have a fantasy, zorro, fairies, other things and so on...
Finally I believe that imagination helps a lot, fantasy, reading these things.
We all have an imagination, we often see links.

- Is that a child may be faced with such a fantasy in the books?
Does the child read things like this?

- Remember your childhood, each child has his own imagination.
This is how I see things.

- Well in fact the little girl was talking about things absolutely incredible, I do not remember everything...

I think it was during the Dutroux case,
and we found ourselves as in the Dutroux case for about 10 hours,
With unclear evocations of sexual acts, sodomy, oral sex, things like that.

- In that case how do you think Marie and Pierre have been led to make such statements?

- I think that when there is a divorce, there is again loss of graduations
at children, at the parents also, or the couple i should say.
This time when parents were normally expected to build something equally.
Well then comes all the perversity due to all the unresolved problems of couple and divorce ...

Just before this recording telephone,
the children's father had raised the issue of incest:

- Around the theme of incest, you told me before:
"Incest is an impulse that moves each of us"

- Mrs Justice, I think it stops there, I have to receive more customers, thank you.

Other elements of the personality of Pierre and Marie's father
appear in the wiretapping conducted by the police.
At that time the father has not yet been informed by investigators about charges from his children against him.
Here are parts of dialogue transcribed by police and read by 2 of our colleagues.

Conversation of December 3, 1996, the father of Pierre and Marie speaks to a friend:

- I think I have a complex personality fascinated between the beautiful and sordid at once.
I saw, I lived the sordid and the beautiful, everything ...

- I cannot see how one can be fascinated by the sordid?

- By the power of that!

- Of destruction?

- Oh yes! I can tell you ...

Conversation of December 28, 1996, always with a friend:

- The morbid must be taken as the accident, as an accident,
as something in which you can possibly fall,
Finally, if I may say, I'm getting hot when I talk about it!
I think we can explore the human soul without leaving snap.

Conversation of January 1st, 1997:

- I don't know if you're aware,
there are well-known sects that advocate precisely things
where the boundaries become a little fuzzy about what is possible to do with his child.

- Of course yes I know, wait, I know something about it, yes yes I know all that.

On November 30, 1998, for lack of evidence, lack of confession, the judge orders the dismissal.
Her colleague Christiane Berkany, explains what it means.

- If the judge could not gather sufficient evidence elements
It makes an order of dismissal.

This does not mean that the victim lied or she has not undergone the facts, it means in French law that the magistrate did not establish the incriminating evidence confirming the declaration of the victim.

Therefore, the father of Pierre and Marie is no longer pursued by justice.
The children's mother decides to appeal the dismissal decision.
It relies on an association for the rights of the child which
holds an information that could revive the case.

An information held here, in Lausanne, Switzerland,
by this man, George Glatz, MP of the Township of Vaulx,
responsible for issues of children abuses,
and founder of the CIDE, the association that centralizes records of children victims of sexual abuses.

- We wrote to the state prosecutor of the "Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris" to say that in the case of Pierre and Marie,
we have new elements,
we have another case of sexual abuse of another child, Sylvie.

Children do not know each others, but we found many similar elements.
And then finally we offer the children a set of photos
where the abuser of Pierre and Marie has been recognized by the little Sylvie,
and the abuser of Sylvie is recognized by the other group of children, Pierre and Marie.

Syvie and her little sister, we have found them somewhere in eastern France.
Sylvie is now 6 years old, she was 4 at the time of the facts
which took place in Paris.
Like Marie, Sylvie spoke gradually,
To finally prove that her father, her grandfather and her grandmother abused sexually of her.
The decorum is different from that of Pierre and Marie, but abuses are similar.

- This is Dad and this is the gentlemen, this is Marguerite,
and this is X (grandfather), and to me and Marguerite they put their willy in our willy and they make nasty things.

-Who is X?

- It's grandaddy (paternal grandfather)

- It is your daddy's dad?

- Yes and that's dad's mom and here that's dad who puts his willy into Marguerite ...
I can not remember ...

-What's that you cannot remember?

- A problem.

- Do you want to explain us your problem?

- Once When X (a friend of the father),
she said "I want all the gold and silver dresses
and then I want to kill Marguerite"
then everyone had to come to help.

- What are you doing here? tell me?

- This is where he has bitten her.

The small sylvie also evokes the murders of children.

(Sylvie's mother)
- This is what sylvie tells us, she tells for several months now.
Unfortunately nobody wants to listen to her.

Sylvie gives more details that leave really think that it could be true,
since she describes the child in the ground, with soil in the eyes,
and details that a child can not invent,
or that she probably couldn't see in a cartoon or otherwise.

- Legally, where are you in this case, you have a complaint Mrs?

- It complained in August 97, when I knew of a possible suspicion of fondling.
she saw a doctor, which has nothing found at all,
since in fact the review was more or less gone wrong since they were pupils gentlemen.
In addition sylvie at the time, refused to see anyone that looked like a man,
and there was a hang up, so the review was particularly really painful for her.
And for me too because I really felt to appear as the woman trying to get rid of her husband.

For two years the teacher of Sylvie noticed the behavior of the child and worries.

- Little Sylvie was really afraid when unknown persons to her came in the school, especially municipal employees,
the school photographer.
She hid just below her arm, behind her beloved rag.

And it was very difficult for her to behave like other children.

What occurs most often since the beginning "my dad hurts me in my head"...
She told my colleagues, dozens of times.
She has told me dozens of times "my dad hurts me in my head".
And this little girl still very regularly and for almost 2 years
has reactions of great, great suffering, great sadness inside.
A child of this age, do not cry like that on command.
She has something that's nagging her, something that hurts her soul.

And we see, we see in her eyes, we see it in certain behaviors.
And this little girl needs help for sure,
This little girl has experienced serious things.

The mother complained 2 ½ years ago.
She also gave the police a record.
This is a telephone message left on the answering machine of her former personal companion by one of his friends.

- "Hi it's X, it is Saturday 12:40
I call you because you called me several times saying it was urgent.
We didn't get in touch since then.
What I really want to know,
we should already prepare diabolical weekends
and the groups that we want to do.
Tell me how many you will be. Bye."

The court also has this document,
but here in the Strasbourg court they were unable to take up the case.

Because the facts took place in the Paris region
and for 2 years, Sylvie's file made back and forth between Strasbourg and Versailles.

A procedure that has surprised the assistant prosecutor of Strasbourg.

- Yes we must recognize that there are comings and goings in the procedure that seem unusual.

- For what do you attribute this delay?

- I do not know, I can not explain it.

- Is a sensitive case anyway?

- If we are to believe the child.
I think we should pay attention to the credibility of the statements of a child.
it could be a sensitive issue.

Since the court has taken two decisions,
it appointed a judge to hear the case.

But it has at the same time decided to remove the mother's
custody of her two little girls for giving it to the father.

Since then the mother has fled abroad with her children.

May 6, 1999, the Paris courthouse.

The mother of Pierre and Marie will know whether or not
judges establish a link between the case
of the little Sylvie and that of her two children.

The answer is no, the appeal of non-suit has been dismissed.

- "I find it absolutely shameful because I want to do all for everything goes well,
But in the meantime there are other children who are affected
and for over two years, nobody moves,
it is these children who are in danger today.
And there is a responsibility that is huge".

The father of Pierre and Marie have not been pursued,
the justice reinstated his visitation rights as he claimed.

It is expected that they first meet in a mediation center,
Then they may return later for a weekend in two.

- It's still horrible what they have done and all that,
So we still have not to be ashamed ...

The mother must now convince her children to see their father.
Otherwise she risks a conviction for non-representation of children.
She has therefore chosen to live abroad with Pierre and Marie.


Ensuite le débat!

Dernière édition par Marston le 6/8/2010, 00:47, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   6/8/2010, 00:39

Le débat, plutôt velu....


And after this deeply despressing document
here we are with some actors
who face each in their role
the drama of pedophilia.

First Frederique Bredin,
Socialist MP of Seine-Maritime
and Rapporteur of the "Guigou law"
about the Punishment of Sexual Crimes

Martine Bouillon, prosecutor by the Courts of Bobigny

Martine Nisse, who is a family therapist
and co-founder of the Therapy Centre of the "Buttes-Chaumont"

George Glatz, seen in this document
who is MP of Lausanne, founder of the Committee internationnal
for the Dignity of the Child (CIDE)

And finally the chief commissioner, Jean Yves Leguennec
who is head of the "departmental safety of Hauts-de-Seine"
and where he leads a Minors'brigade.

Firstly thank you all for being here with us.

Then Jean Yves Leguennec, you're quite a little the police representative here, so how goes a child's audition
in a Minors'brigade when a child arrives?

Is the officer alone with this child,
or is he assisted by a doctor, a psychologist?

- So at first there are two ways to receive a child.

As you know, legislation has been passed by parliament in June 98
and now requires in some cases
to make the video recording of the interview with the child.

That said, this law was implemented in June 99
and we have not enough background,
and all the children we get to the Minors'brigade
are not heard in these conditions.

- I was just going to say, the law requires
that they are heard in these conditions but are they really?

Is the law applied?

Is it applied everywhere?

- Some are actually heard in such conditions
and some in other more traditional conditions,
like before,
i.e it actually happens
in the camera of an office, between a judiciary police officer
and the child and this office is not a traditional police office,
we have installed in the offices of the Minors'brigade
2 parts , a kind of game part
and one more traditional and administrative part.

- But, frankly, do you feel
that officers who receive this kind of evidence
are trained enough?

They are not doctors, they are not therapists.

Do you feel that their work is not a bit too heavy for them all alone
faced with this child?

- Of course it is a heavy work.

It is a difficult work
which requires much rigor but also a lot of personal investment
but they are trained for this, they are trained to do this work
and I think their results on a general plan
are good.

- So you apparently provoke some reactions,
we begin by Frederique Bredin and then Martine Nisse.

- Well first I want to say that the story we have just seen is very
moving, and especially terrifying.

If the facts which are shown in this report are true,
it still shows a number of shortcomings,
delays in the investigation as well as judiciary than from the police,
which could really justify an inspection of the Chancellery to see what
it is all about, and how it could happen.

It's about the "leaks" which helped the father, even if it could be
something else, but the father was suspected.

It's about a lack of listening, about a confrontation totally unmastered
in the office of the police, with a sort of wild revival.

It's about the absence of psychiatric examination, or about the non-
listening to a number of experts during the investigation, so there is a whole series of things that really leaves speechless.

And who should really make you think about them,
if the things we have seen are true, just as I said ...

- They are following an investigation of a year and a half, I remind you.

- Listen, this is not only surprising, but also shocking for all viewers.

The second thing that seems shocking to me and let me bounce back to what you just said,
is that because the french MPs decided to pass a law against
sexual offenses,
I think quite important in 1998,
which provided on 1 side to strengthen punishment for the perpetrators,
to provide a possible psychiatric follow-up of them out of prison,
to prevent recurrences,
but which also provided,
and that is the subject of our discussion,
a series of measures for child victims,
and one thing that was expected,
and it's been hours and hours of debate,
was that children would be interviewed only once,
through a video recording.

What you seem to say is that it is not applied.

- Yes.

- What is great when you organize debates on TV is that it helps to know where we are in law enforcement...

- I think we can go further.

Frankly what is found in reality is that there are many places where
children cannot be heard like this ...

- It has been hours of discussion,
and therefore you cannot make the recording if the child refuses, or his legal representative.

Apart from this very specific case there must be systematically audio
recording, it is what the legislator intended.

While it is possible that the legislator makes laws for nothing,
that the implementing regulations are useless,
but I feel that this audio recording is absolutely essential, we can see
it clearly in the report that has been shown,
to avoid the children to repeat 20 times the same facts that are
obviously extremely traumatic.

- Yes.

- And also another reason why I emphasize about this audio recording,
it can also be clearly seen in the film, is that the
word of the child is not necessarily extremely logic.

- When you say audio, it is both audio and video...

- Yes, audiovisual.

- We see the child's face, and can also track his/her movements...
What is very important as we shall see later.

- Yes, it is very important because we can see that the word of the child is not very structured,
this is horribly traumatic memories,
as a psychiatrist said, you must "pick up the pieces" of fragmented
and silences and gestures are as important as the word of the child.

- Martine Bouillon I saw you just reacting to Jean Yves Leguennec's
speech, do you sometimes feel that children are not heard as they should be?

- I think, to respond to what has been said so far,
and to respond to what has been said about the document,
I am completely upset by this story.

I can tell you what I noticed most in the eyes,
I really wasn't expecting to see that,
I mean that I met a kid who made me a drawing,
exactly the same as the drawing of the girl!

It might be asking questions?!

First thing.

Second thing,
and who has no connection with the kids here in this video,
second thing,
what we see from these children in the video evidences
precisely is what they don't say,
it is this extraordinary suffering.

So I do not know, but how can we say that it is unimaginable,
and then stop to say it's unbelievable!?

So what is unimaginable,
which was unimaginable 100 years ago, happened yet.

So why don't we go a little further?

And why don't we take into account just the pain that we perceive, which is palpable in this story?

To me, I really have no doubt about the suffering of these children.

- Martine Bouillon let me ask you another question because we just discuss the training of police, and the difficulty in establishing...

- They are not trained! They are no more trained than magistrates.

- Well, exactly.

-"They are trained", it sounds very good on TV, but it's
not true, they aren't trained for that, or haven't been.

Not even the psychiatrists and psychologists, when one has studied the problem with the law of 97-98 it was found that there were very few trainers, because very few people were informed.

There is no mandatory training, there are courses available,
there are people who are interested in a number of things and do

internships in-service training,
but there is no mandatory training or a particular type
of training required for a particular person
who would take care of a particular function...

- It's like in Besançon where police and gendarmes are helped by
psychiatrists ...

- We are starting to put in place since the law of 98 courses,
but there are not any mandatory training !

- I can not let say that police officers of the Minors'brigade are not
trained, are not trained enough that's your point of view,
but we can not say they are not trained.

Officials of my Minors'brigade, actually as judges,
receive general training,
but from the moment they are serving in a brigade of minors,
they receive special training, they are actually ...

- What do you call this specific training?
We would like to know.
Who make this training? These are psychiatrists, psychologists?
And how long does it last, too?

- This training is implemented by the Ministry of Interior,
which is made by people who are outside the police!

- Jean-Yves Leguennec frankly,
don't you feel that in this type of hearing,
i was going to say very kind, the last term is a misnomer,
it would be prudent for police to be accompanied by a doctor,
a therapist, a psychiatrist in order to help them through this kind of
hearing, because it should not be easy for them either?

- There are pilot sites in France, which have provided the problem and
make the children's hearings nor either in police or gendarmerie but at the hospital with a pychiatre.

- But should not it be mandatory?

- The law came out in '98 anyway, the time it starts up and we get enough distance one can not say yet ...

- This is what I meant earlier, Ms. Bredin, that law enforcement is taking place.

In my department there is a recording studio,
which was put in place and where we make records,
but all cases are not subject to registration,
as indeed we must obtain authorization from the victim or the

representative of the victim, moreover the judge who is in charge of the case has something to say.

So there are a number of issues that are the subject of records,
and some others not.

- I would like also to have the opinion of Martine Nisse,
who is a therapist and family therapist,
who is co-founder of the Therapy Centre des Buttes-Chaumont.

We saw in this document a particularly difficult confrontation for this
little Marie.
First issue which is out of this case,
is the confrontation a good thing for children who have experienced such sexual abuses, or not?

- Then there is a difference between prepubertal children and adolescents.
Often teenagers want confrontation,
because they want to battle in a way,
but regarding children, small children,
it is very complicated because we must say something about the trauma.

The trauma of this nature, sexual agression,
triggers psychological effects which are quite specific and which make
inside the victim a kind of psychological dissociation.

It means that the child's body is there, to make it short,
and his head is otherwhere in order to be able to survive the event,
and it allows him somewhere to keep a rather good,
quite ideal vision of the person who has attacked him/her,
and that's why you see these children in the confrontations could jump on the neck of their father or their mother when he said just before he was raped by one.

It's very complicated to put in place to capture the nature of this
communication that the child will develop in the confrontation,
where a glance from his/her attacker terrifies him/her,
and conditions him/her to show something else than fear.

- And what do you think of this confrontation there?

- The confrontation here is absolutely incredible,
of course I share the emotion of Madame Bredin,
but I'll probably say something that will shock too.

Nothing is more traumatic than the rape itself,
and we must not imagine that the police investigation,
or legal proceedings, will traumatize in an even more painful way the
child who have already been, it is untrue.

it even has a release effect on the child.

And besides what we saw in the video,
that is to say, the child drew and explained to journalists,
the child could cry.

These children, when they are at the beginning of the therapy work,
they are emotionally anesthetized.
There is no expression or fear or tears.

- A central question of this document,
can a child under 8 or 9 invent such trauma?

- It's absolutely impossible.
I will use the phrase of Mr. Aries,
it's unbelievable, in the sense of the word,
a child can not imagine that.
I've never seen it.

- George Glatz:

- I would like to go back to your original question.
In France or at least what I hear,
most intra-family abuses aren't too problematic when they are handled by justice, but I notice when there are abuses that affect a community where children are given to multiple partners,
then suddenly we see many blunders!

There will be time to return to it,
but actually statements like those we just heard,
I've seen many in Switzerland, people who fled France,
mothers who leave with a suitcase and who leave ...

- With their two children?

-... With their two children, yes.

But with respect, I would like to respond about the hearing as it was practiced for the 2 children we have seen.
When we sit and kneel a child to see if the meter is actually well up to
height of sex, since it's written:

"let the child put on his knees and measure up to his face from the feet, note that this height from feet coincides with the location of the sex of Mr."
Doing that in a confrontation, it is a second rape of a child in my opinion.

We don't have to do that,
i mean put a child on her knees before a presumed abuser,
but still presumed.

- Jean-Yves Leguennec.

- But I must say that the confrontation between a small child and the

alleged perpetrator is, in our case, the Minor's brigade that I lead,
is very unusual, and happens in very special conditions .

That is to say that we avoid that the child can see and be seen by the
author, if you want it causes them to turn back,
we make sure they do not talk,
so we are really trying to avoid any pressure being exerted on the child.

And I absolutely agree that the law was passed in '98 will prevent such problems.

- I'd really like to ask a specific question in relation to what you said
Martine Nisse,
you say it is unimaginable to think that children of 8 or 9 years or
less, of course, have invented such stories .

So let me ask you a specific question,
how do you explain the fact that the two child psychiatrists who followed Pierre and Marie have never been heard by the judge?

They made the request, and they have never received any response.

So how is it understandable, that?
Martine Bouillon?

- You know that Zorro, fairytales, it is in the imagination of children,
it is what the father said...

But I do not think they imagine things such as children with head on a
spike and so on...
So how is it conceivable?

The magistrates do not usually hear directly therapists, whatsoever, for the simple reason is that therapists usually have always wanted to hide behind professionnal secrecy.

- Besides, it is not the case, they asked to be heard.

- It is a usual approach I could say, the judge who will not seek the

therapist, then you say they have asked to be heard...

- And they have received no response.

- It is not conceivable that they are not heard.

If you want, one comes to understand that pedophilia existed.

We can not yet understand that there is even worse than the pedophilia I would say "simple".

There are people who still resist these cases with all their might and all their inside, and obviously the judge ther who is saying in his order
"that is so unthinkable that it is not credible",
she is resisting and she will resist forever.

- So you've highlighted a problem that exists and which is important,
it is actually a problem for doctors who report these cases because there are indeed obliged to violate professional secrecy,
and they may be removed by College of Doctors,
it has already happened.

Frédérique Bredin I think you have considered the possibility of developments in this field.

- They are extremely sensitive topics,
because it is true that the accusations and charges once they are brought they also mark people for life.

Of course the children and then those they accuse.

If this is true we must show no mercy,
if I am wrong it can break someone's life.

So we also understand the sensitivity how judges or police officers to
respect the rights of defense, and to be careful in their investigations.

But it is true that so far those who have dared to break the code of
silence are rare, and those who had the courage to do today sometimes find themselves in very difficult situations because they are being question by cases where they were challenged by their children, and that leads by example a nonsuit,
and then they turned against the doctor,
for example, or against the person who "alerted" the judges or police,
and they may be subject to harsh professionnal processes.

- Is it possible to protect them in a better way?

- We should probably now extend the protection of professionals who report cases difficult.

- I see more and more procedures of false accusations that were operating as soon as there is a non-place,
the slander is suspected.

- So is there not also a problem right now with the divorce proceedings?

There's a sense now that if there is a pending divorce proceedings the
judge has a lot of trouble in believing children.

- To believe in the mother and in the children, yes.

I immediately think ...

There were a few cases,
it is true that there are some,
they said the credibility of children, of small children ...

- 3-6% false allegations believed physicians.

- 3-6% said Mr. Aries or how? whatever.

It is true that there are some, but we're adults,
we must check very quickly when a child lies.

When a child begins to tell us the story of someone else we see it very quickly,
and when we do not really want to go really in those cases we have always the opportunity to say:
" Oh, it's still a story of divorce, so it is a story invented by the
mother", and so on...
I'm not saying it's dishonest, I say inwardly, unconsciously,
they have there a pretext for dismissing the case on the dark side of the mind, of which they do not have the map.

- Justice did not know in France?

- Wait, JY Leguennec first, and then George Glatz.

- Yes, we know when we have before us a record, that in divorce cases there may be a problem,
the best way to remove the father's right of visit is to accuse him of
sexual abuses, we know that.

- We see that no, he get the children back!!!

- Wait ...

- The document tries to prove something different,
not necessarily the opposite, but ...

- This is single case.

- Oh no! This is not a single case, no!

- No, but what I am saying is that we, as police officers or as magistrates, must be extremely cautious,
as Ms. Bredin said just now, it is a very serious charge,
so we take maximum precautions, we try to be as vigilant as possible, and then regarding the child's speech, there is the policeman of course, but more often we use,
through an application, which is generally applied by the magistrate,
to review the credibility of the word of the child,
and the child is received outside the police service by a psychologist
who will listen again, and will assess the credibility.

- But sir, the child is sometimes heard only for two or three hours,
do you feel that a child under 8 years can confide in less than two or
three hours and give such a trauma to a doctor that they will see only
once, whereas we do not call for therapists who have seen them for six months?

- No, no, but, um...
a review of credibility is to say that we try to rely on a specialist
other than a specialist from police course,
to check if what the child says is credible.

Well, it's not mathematical, of course,
so we'll have to support our procedure for the decision of the magistrate because he will make the decision.

Based on our record, and then on this credibility checking.

And from there he will take a decision.

- Martine Nisse first, and then we'll talk about networks.

- I just would like to emphasize that it is a habit,
which seems to us totally obvious,
that is to ask an expert credibility of the child.

No one ever asks for the presumed person's expertise of credibility,
it is always on the child.

- You mean presumed guilty or innocent?

- Yes we have seen, we always ask it for the child,
to check if he lies or not,
this question does not arise for adults.

- It's not just the child.

- Yes I know, but finally it is never asked that way.

- Yes, adults who are victims of rape,
have a review of credibility,
the same as that of children.

- Yes, but I'm talking about people who are indicted,
who could be responsible, and defendants.

- And a psychiatric report is not ...

- ... is not an expertise in credibility, it's still interesting...

- If you ...

- I have not finished, just one more thing, excuse me,
I listened to what was happening here, and I thought that what mattered is that you can move towards a better understanding of the pervert functioning of these adults using children sexually in these pedophile networks, or sectarians networks .

That is to say that it's not, of course we need to learn more about these victims, to protect them better,
but I truly believe that a lack of knowledge of how quasi-hypnotic these people have on various stakeholders - examining magistrate - a grip so strong that they say "yes the child is lying."

- Listen, it comes right because we will address the last part of the
debate, which is a key issue after the document we have just seen,
there has been talk of sectarian organization, it was heard in the document of traffic, of murders of children, particularly from abroad, but not only, but does that mean,
and here I am turning to you Georges Glatz,
that there are in France organized pedophile networks ?

- I am totally convinced and some others as well.
Although we try to believe that there are no networks.
We have recently heard judges say that there were no networks.

Yes, the police also.

I believe that in order to understand the phenomenon of pedophilia we must identify 3 sectors.

The first sector is one of pedophilia "classic", intrafamilial sex abuse.
It focuses not, it does not affect the networks.

Then there are the pedophiles attacking a child out of school,
it often ends tragically with the death of the child,
he doesn't want to leave an embarrassing witness.

Yet it doesn't touches networks.

Third form of pedophilia,
child abuse called "institutional" as obviously, those who love children and the ownership of their bodies,
will look for occupations that will more easily put them in contact with
For example it will be scout leaders, perhaps priests, policemen, judges, that's not me who says it's a prosecutor - we will return on it - educators, social workers etc..
Because it is the technique of the Trojan.

When a pedophile happens to insinuate himself into an institution,
often in an important post, he brings other pedophiles.

Obviously if you want to work quietly,
safely, to be sure not to be identified, you will if possible work in an
institution for mentally handicapped people.

So there will be no problems, they can actually easily abuse children.

And that's not yet the networks.

- You confirm to us tonight that there are networks in France?

- Yes, yes, I'll bring some elements.

I think we should consider at this time when it comes to networks, in
economic terms.
Because it is a market. A lucrative market.
Videos of snuff-movies sell for between 10,000 and 20,000 Swiss Francs.

- What do you mean by snuff-movies?

- Films with deaths of real children.

So yes, these videos exist for years, in Belgium we discovered some,
but we actually speaks very little about it in the media.
But they exist.
Besides Mrs. Gina Bernart" who had sent the CD-ROM with several photos of children ...

- Yes it will be investigated further.

- ...And who died, and who said she had a cd-rom to send us and give to justice.

Unfortunately she died in rather mysterious circumstances,
and I could never give anything to justice.

So I said from an economic perspective.
There has been some years ago those pedophiles who went to extreme-orient to consume children, in Asia, in Bangkok ...
If you make a business of it, it was found in a Swiss travel agency that traded in that, but is not very profitable,
because "unfortunately" these pedophiles can go only once or twice a year there, so if you want to accelerate the market you'll bring the object of consumption to the consumer.

That's to say the children, and there are organized networks.

Thus on the Mediterranean, in some countries - Morocco - there are centers where pedophiles go.

Only 1 hour flight, a business trip as a reason,
with the blessing of the family, then you come back.

- There you still talk about travelings, but are there any organized
networks in France?

- Actually there are organized networks, structures,
where an area get infiltrated, we have what we call protective fabrics,
compared to the bench, compared to the police,
and you need children "fishponds", these are the institutions.

Listen you seem ....

This is from Reuters, which is quite recent,
the prosecutor of Nice, Eric de Montgolfier,
Nice is still a pretty hot area,
said a case of suspected children abuses directed against judges had been voluntarily stifled by the justice etc...
Here is what the prosecutor Eric de Montgolfier said...

- We will listen JY Le Guennec who represents the police,
and then Martine Bouillon for judges.

- I can not give you any information,
I can not give you a scoop tonight,
I personally have never had to deal with such issues,
I've never heard of supply networks of children.

Indeed, sex tourism in Thailand,
all that I can tell you for having arrested pedophiles,
and have found their agenda airline tickets,
I know perfectly well that this is something that exists,
I never heard of children on the French territory,
who have been provided by the networks...

- You are telling us that it's like the Chernobyl cloud, it stopped at the
French border?

- Not at all! I have not said that ... I do not know!

- Excuse me, but when children are involved in so-called orgies,
with many people, it is the early formation of a network,
let us be precise!

- I am talking of things that I deal daily.

- So I can tell you ...

- I have not had any case,
I do not say that it does not exist,
I say that I have not personally experienced.

I told you that you can see it,
the prosecutor of Nice said some judges had hidden pedophilia cases.

- I have not practiced in Nice, I do not know what is happening in Nice.

- But it is in France! Let me tell you, I know that...

- No but the problem Mr. Glatz...

- I do not blame you, but there are cases that exist!

- I don't feel charged, I mean that our problem as policemen,
is not pedophile networks, it's everyday and ordinary pedophilia.

- There are no problems with it, in principle ...

- It is that which exists in large numbers,
it's that too that we should cover!

- Sure, but you master it more or less.

But why in five years nothing has happened?

- But why you react so vehemently?

- Because I want to talk about things which are true, no ... uh ...
actually if you bring me the proof, if during an investigation ...

- Shouldn't you look by yourself for the evidence?

- Oh, uh no, ah yes indeed, but from investigations already begun,
if you give us the information...

I mean, we work every day in this domain,
so about the pedophile supply of images via the Internet,
all that does exist, I agree,
I will not tell you it does not exist.

- I do not doubt that you work very well,
but some work very bad, that's what we mean!

- It's not the problem, when you want the information you just go for it!

- Martine Bouillon:

- And here we will not get it!
I'm sorry but I have been substitute minors in Seine-St-Denis for a
year, there was not a single child who took drugs in Seine-St-Denis!

I'm sorry, I have not seen a single procedure for children who used drugs in seine-st-denis, I have not seen any!
It does not mean that there are no children who take drugs in Seine-st-denis.
There are, of course!

- I have a specific question ...

- I say that at some point you're telling us "I do my job",
I do not doubt about it for one intant.

I say that you're not curious enough,
you know perfectly well that pedophile networks exist in France!

They exist in Spain, they exist in Italy,
they exist in Belgium, and from Belgium to go to Spain ...

- What is the definition you give to a pedophile network?
That's the problem!

- Let me finish then I'll give you the definition of "network".
From Italy to Belgium, or from Spain to Belgium don't we pass through France?
So I know I'm bad at geography, but even so,
France is there in the middle.

- I did not say it doesn't exist.

- What is a network?

This is a group of people who have common interests,
in this case children, and who trade or not,
who use the child in network, that is ie not at home, not in small groups, but large committee.

- It's mafia networks, as we will not say it we can not solve the problem of pedophilia ...

- I have said it many times.

- We are in a state of law,
I can not afford to tell from the moment I have no proof that children
are going to be abused like that.

What I actually know Madame is that pedophiles moving images,
so if that's what you call the network I totally agree with you.

- No, no, we talked about providing children!

- It's not the same!

- The death of Pastor Doucet, still not cleared up! All those cases ...

- I am talking about records that I know.

- I am talking about NETWORKS.

- I can only speak of the files that I know not what I do not know.

- Frederique Bredin:

- Yes, do networks exist and what types of networks,
it is indeed difficult to establish because by definition they are not

well known, but I think what is important to say, the solution is in collective awareness.

Since the past 10 years in France I found a huge progress has been made, and now it's up to everyone to know not only just listen to children, but also look around, and eventually have the courage to talk if he feels that something abnormal is taking place.
It is true that the police can not self-refer to facts on mere rumors.

- Sure.

- They can make inquiries anyway ...

- But certainly there's a law of silence that has lasted for years and
years, and it's up to each adults to know how to listen and possibly go
denouncing the facts which seem criminals.

- Where is the loyalty to policies?
because I heard that little sentence anyway,
"the mills are reserved for major traffickers",
so if you're not a major trafficker when it's about human flesh,
what do you need to traffic to be so!?

- And the judge?

- So for the inquiry there is much to say,
I say from the beginning this inquiry seems strangely conducted,
with gaps, delays and big anomalies,
then I think we should not .. .

- Wait we come back specifically to this investigation,
and back over the claims of Marie and Sylvie,
about the murdered children,
since the course was very clear in this story because many times children have terminated these facts,
do you have already heard that there was in France,
I say here in France, sacrifices and mass graves of children?

- Yes, Florian , a known case, Aurore, Amy, St. Victor, these are known
cases, they say exactly ...
Florian said he saw children in coffins,
his testimony was entirely credible by all experts who have seen him,
and this child is currently a fugitive in the U.S. with his mother.
Same thing for Aurore.

- Has there been any open instructions?

- Yes there were instructions, but actually, unfortunately, made in Nice, and Nice as finally being told by the prosecutor Montgolfier,
there were blankets that things were not successful,
I can tell you that I hear the investigations,
in view of experts and multidisciplinary committees that set,
because we do things a bit seriously,
in the multi-disciplinary committees that have studied these issues,
and they are big,
have shown that work has been very badly done!

- Martine Bouillon.

- For Nice I do not know,
but I know and I can tell you that in Paris Area (région parisiennne),
I actually learned of MASS GRAVES OF CHILDREN,
I weigh my words,
I would not say more because there is an ongoing investigation,
but here it is...

- It is extremely serious what is said here, it's extremely grave,
Frederique Bredin you have a reaction?

- This is absolutely...frightening.

But I want to say maybe just a word on it,
why is it so difficult to understand, so difficult for everyone?
It is that it is unthinkable, that is why on the one hand
- we have said it in the first part of the debate -
the victims are not only children but they feel guilty,
that's the problem with the speech,
it is that perversity makes the guilt is reversed,
and that the victim feels guilty,
and possibly more of a family drama,
in addition to being guilty of any "judiciary death" of his/her parent.

So there's a big challenge for the child to talk and to all those,
policemen, magistrates, and all of us when we hear these stories,
no doubt a great difficulty to understand,
because we are in the domain of the inconceivable.

We must overcome that and say that it exists.

- Jean-Yves Leguennec:

- No, but I must say though, that ...
I have 10 years of hindsight eh,
it's been 10 years since I lead a brigade of minors,
in 10 years there has been enormous change,
that is to say that every year we see an increase of 25% of number of cases before us, it means that people talk,
people respond.
So effectively we have children more and more young as victims.
I remember when I arrived there were many cases involving teenagers and these were matters which were often very very heavy.

Now, more and more, whenever there is suspicion,
as there is anything, there is reporting.

And it is obvious that the consequences for children are lower where they are simply touched,
it's much less serious than those involving sexual relations repeatedly
over several months.

- The final word, Martine Nisse, I would like to ask you a question ...

- These aren't sexual relations, these are rapes.

- Yes, of course these are rapes.

- Just one important question to ask,
which I think is very important for children,
what are the consequences for children when there were rapes,
when there were sexual abuses,
but moreover a denial of suffering?
That is to say that justice does not recognize ...

- They are children who are in danger of death.

These are suicidal children, which will risk being hit by passing all the time in front of cars, get off balance on the windowsill,
they won't be able to work at school.

They say "I can no longer remember, but I can not concentrate",
they also have an excitement that was triggered by the sexual assault, which maintains a constant stress,
which triggers at home sexualized behaviors that have consequences also on their brother and sister, or on other children...

I mean, the consequences are extreme, despite all feelings of faintness and somatizations the GP was talking about,
you have everything ...
There was talk of drug addiction,
alcoholism, there are plenty of symptoms following the abuses if the

child's testimony is not taken into account,
if there is no judicial procedure,
because at this time when we recognize that this child was the victim of something, he can leave this state of victim.

- A final word George Glatz,
do you feel this sense of indulgence here in France toward sexual crimes is now gradually receding?

- But regarding the cases considered "classics", it has made great
But in terms of networks, it is not moving!
And really it is not moving enough.

I believe that political power must now meet its requirements and create highly independent cells to conduct these surveys where we touch the networks.
For networks exist and I actually confirms the stories of mass graves.
I heard two years ago in high french circles affecting Interpol.

- Thank you all for participating in this program.

Here are the books that helped us to prepare it.


Translation made by the NOSTRAD team,
Thanks for your attention.


Ca serait pas mal de rajouter ça, en espérant que ça se retourne pas
contre lui:

A word to mention that Pascal Taponier who participated in making the
original documentary, is hostage to terrorists in afghanistan for more than 6 months at the time we end the translation work.
God bless him!


Eventuellement une signature:

Please share this video, speak about it...
The law of silence has no more reason to exist,

"The Words are our Sword."

"The truth will set us free".


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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   15/8/2010, 20:04

Parties 4 et 5 sous titrées:
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   6/9/2010, 17:59

Partie 6 et 7 sous-titrée:

What a Face
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   8/9/2010, 00:34

Merci Nex, t'as carrément arraché là! cheers

En plus, ça commence à être vu et distribué sur des fofos aux us....


Citation :
thank you so much. This has been long-awaited. You can expect this to go viral and receive much attention! Tremendous work. I cannot thank you enough.

Quand même hein, ça fait toujours plaisir Wink
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   8/9/2010, 20:51

FINISH !!! cheers

Part 8:

Part 9:

Oui, ça à l'air de décoller, j'attends d'être "activer" dans le forum PrisonPlanet, DavidHyckes et un autre consacré aux abus sexuels sur mineurs pour envoyer les liens...

Il faudrait que ça touche une large catégorie de personnes.

Merci à toi Marston pour la traduction. C'était du boulot.

ps= Je vais l'encoder en un seul fichier vidéo et mettre ça sur Megaupload dès que possible.

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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   8/9/2010, 21:52

Beau travail d'équipe les gars !
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   9/9/2010, 00:23

Merci les gars, on peut être fiers!

Nex, t'as pas mégotté non plus, ça m'a aussi motivé Wink

J'attends aussi mon activation sur wup, en attendant bon, quelques petits commentaires sur youtube, histoire de...

Bonne idée que de lier les vidéos!

La Force est avec nous! sunny
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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   10/9/2010, 16:54

La vidéo intégrale en un fichier:

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MessageSujet: Re: [Terminé !] Children's rapes: the end of silence?   10/9/2010, 22:41

j'en ai fais une playlist sur mon compte YouTube.
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